Chain Tensioning Options?

[MacB]

If you were considering getting a custom frame that you wanted to be able to run as fixed, SS, hub gear or derailler, what's the best option for chain tensioning and why? This would be rim rather than disc/hub brakes.

I'm only aware of, rear derailler, chain tensioner, horizontal dropouts, track ends, sliding dropouts, magic gears and eccentric bottom brackets. In this instance I'm discounting the idea of filing out a bit of a vertical dropout

[mrcharly-YHT]

Chain tensioner or rear dérailleur won't work with fixed.

semi-horizontal dropouts.

Little to go wrong, will work for any of the gear options.

[aidan.f]

A nice  long pair of  old fashioned forward facing dropouts as brazed into my old CB Dalesman frame circa 1980 sumfink

[MacB]

Chain tensioner or rear dérailleur won't work with fixed.

semi-horizontal dropouts.

Little to go wrong, will work for any of the gear options.

Thanks, I do know what works with what I'm just crap at expressing it properly. I just don't know the full pros and cons of each. I suppose the main decision is tension via dropouts or tension via BB. I like the simplicity of vertical dropouts but have no experience of EBB's.

The frame would be titanium if that matters

[1gear]

A nice  long pair of  old fashioned forward facing dropouts as brazed into my old CB Dalesman frame circa 1980 sumfink

Just what i was about to put.
I have a frame with some nice forward facing, sort of horizontal drop outs. It was a geared bike originally that i converted to fixed.
It would have been very simple to convert it to gears aswell.

[Crumbling Nick]

A nice  long pair of  old fashioned forward facing dropouts as brazed into my old CB Dalesman frame circa 1980 sumfink

Just what i was about to put.

+1

I have a frame with some nice forward facing, sort of horizontal drop outs.

[semantic pedant]
I tend to use Sheldon's terminology. It accords with traditional UK usage, where dropouts were (and remain) a useful innovation compared with the older rear-facing fork ends.
[/semantic pedant]

It was a geared bike originally that i converted to fixed.
It would have been very simple to convert it to gears aswell.

+1   

[MSeries]

rear-facing fork ends ? do you mean track ends ?

[Crumbling Nick]

rear-facing fork ends ? do you mean track ends ?

Not exactly. Track ends are an example, specifically a very good quality one. Some cheap bikes came with the ends of the chainstays squashed flat and rearwards facing slots cut into them for the axle. Mrs N.'s 1976 Moulton Midi has simple steel plates brazed into the chainstays, that I would hesitate to call track ends, because they are too insubstantial to survive the stresses of track usage. There may be other variations - I'm no cycling historian.

[Greenbank]

"Horizontal" dropouts are angled so that the brake blocks remain pretty much aligned with the rim no matter where in the dropout the axle sits. Forward facing horizontal dropouts are rarely actually horizontal.

Track ends require brake block position adjustments if the axle is moved significantly (flipping a fixed/single-speed wheel for a different sprocket size for example).

[Charlotte]

Aye, Greenbank's right.  Track ends are basically for poseurs who want you to know that their bike was designed as a single-speed/fixed wheel bike.  If you're likely to be taking the wheel out on a regular basis, they're actually a bit of a faff.  Especially with mudguards.

If it adds to your range of options, you could look at the sort of dropouts that I have on my Mercian.

[hubner]

I would go for long horizontal dropouts with integral gear hanger, eg:





It's simple; can be used with fixed, SS, hub gear or derailler.

[rogerzilla]

EBBs have a reputation for seizing solid if not religiously maintained, so I'd also go for horizontal dropouts.  You don't need long ones.  The exception is if you're running a rear disc brake, when the EBB is best.  On-One Inbreds with track ends have a slotted disc caliper mount instead, but that's more faff than an EBB and they are disc-only - there are no V-brake bosses.

[Zoidburg]

If it were an option then I would be looking at sliding dropouts.

[gordon taylor]

Er, just to confuse things...

I think eccentric BBs are fab - because everything is so neat and there's no faff with brakes or 'guard positions.

[Simon Galgut]

Another vote for EBB. Makes changing the rear wheel easier as well. Also a must for Rohloff users - the torque arm can be a real pain otherwise.

[MacB]

Wow, thanks folks, info there I was unaware of, looks like I can strike track ends off the list. So that narrows it down to EBB versus longish horizontal dropouts versus sliding dropouts. It will be v or canti brakes so I do like an option that would mean pads didn't need adjusting. Sliding drops would mean pad adjustments unless the slide was angled, or am I being confused?

Hmmm, EBB really appeals, neat and tidy, ticks all the boxes. But, following a bit of reading up, and Rogers post, I'm concerned re reliability and longevity. If they need a lot of TLC then maybe I'm not a good partner for them.

Horizontal drops, I've got them on two bikes already, stick with what I know, don't go getting all fangled and modern on myself. Though I do use chaintugs(I think they're called) on both sides.

I will continue to read and ponder, will consult in detail with frame builder when final decision is made. I think I'm getting close now, I can't see more than another 20 mind changes ahead of me ....thanks for the help again.....Al

[Crumbling Nick]

I'm not sure whether it's an issue for OP, but how easy is it to reverse the rear wheel to change sprockets with an EBB? My experience with a tandem EBB would put me off trying to do it during a ride, and maybe even during a longer trip.

[Crumbling Nick]

If it adds to your range of options, you could look at the sort of dropouts that I have on my Mercian.

Very pretty, but how exactly does the axle drop out of those fork ends?

[rogerzilla]

Pedant 

[Crumbling Nick]

Self-confessed pedant.

However, I fail to see how these "dropouts" differ from track ends and was looking for some explanation that I might have missed.

[MSeries]

Your term 'fork ends' isn't very useful since the forks are at the other end of the bicycle. They are called forks because they look like a fork. The rear end of the bike with it's triangles doesn't.

[Crumbling Nick]

Your term 'fork ends' isn't very useful since the forks are at the other end of the bicycle. They are called forks because they look like a fork. The rear end of the bike with it's triangles doesn't.

When I was young the ones at the front were called front forks.

If you take a bit of time to study the original Rover safety cycle, I think you might discover why the rear end was deemed to have forks as well.

[border-rider]

 If you're likely to be taking the wheel out on a regular basis, they're actually a bit of a faff.  Especially with mudguards.

No, no, no

They're really not.  If you run a stouter tyre it's actually a lot easier to remove the wheel with track ends than with forward-facing dropouts.  Since I do, that's why I use them.

[Crumbling Nick]

 If you're likely to be taking the wheel out on a regular basis, they're actually a bit of a faff.  Especially with mudguards.

No, no, no

They're really not.  If you run a stouter tyre it's actually a lot easier to remove the wheel with track ends than with forward-facing dropouts.  Since I do, that's why I use them.

Isn't that a function of frame geometry? I cannot imagine having a problem with my venerable hack using anything less than 40mm tyres - after all it worked fine with 27" wheels.

[border-rider]

Yes

I really meant 32 or 35 mm tyres on bikes meant for 700C wheels.